Gibbons & Williams. Dublin • 1833–1835

Banknotes issued by Irish Private Banks ca1700–ca1833
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Mac
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Re: Gibbons & Williams. Dublin • 1833–1835

Post by Mac »

gaelicyoda wrote:Is it "Johnston"?
Could be that alright. The signatory then?
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Re: Gibbons & Williams. Dublin • 1833–1835

Post by gaelicyoda »

Mac wrote:Could be that alright. The signatory then?
That's what I'm thinking, but I don't know much about this bank TBH so I couldn't tell you for sure ...
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Re: Gibbons & Williams. Dublin • 1833–1835

Post by ThePloughman »

I'd vote 'Johnston' there. most likely a signature.
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Re: Gibbons & Williams. Dublin • 1833–1835

Post by DOC »

Yes, I think you are correct, it is Johnston & Co. They acted as agents in London for some of the Irish banks. It is interesting to see that the £5 and £10 notes were also payable in London at Jones, Loyd & Co. but not so for the lower denominations.

The appearance of Johnston & Co. in the signature area is difficult to explain. I wonder if they actually issued this note?
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Re: Gibbons & Williams. Dublin • 1833–1835

Post by Mac »

DOC wrote: 12 Nov 2018 21:00The appearance of Johnston & Co. in the signature area is difficult to explain. I wonder if they actually issued this note?
An interesting notion, and quite plausible considering that the notes were payable in London.
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Re: Gibbons & Williams. Dublin • 1833–1835

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Mac wrote: 13 Nov 2018 08:52
DOC wrote: 12 Nov 2018 21:00The appearance of Johnston & Co. in the signature area is difficult to explain. I wonder if they actually issued this note?
An interesting notion, and quite plausible considering that the notes were payable in London.
I guess there is a lot about the operations of the private banks that remains to be discovered.
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Re: Gibbons & Williams. Dublin • 1833–1835

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The notes issued by Gibbons & Williams were innovative for their time having features such as printing on both sides and pre-printed dates. An unusual feature of their notes is the absence of the partners’ names. Here is a link providing excellent information about the Williams family and those involved in ‘Gibbons & Williams’ Bank.

http ://alison-stewart.blogspot.com/2011/09/hutchins-thomas-williams-son-of-thomas.html

It appears that Hutchins Thomas Williams was the lead partner and the main decision maker in the Bank. The Gibbons family had only a minor involvement with one member occupying a junior clerical role. The signature of George Gibbons is seen on some of the issued notes in the entered section, so presumably this is the person in question.

Hutchins Thomas Williams signed most of the issued notes. His signature is seen in two formats: Hutchins T.Williams and H.T.Williams. Examples of the two signature variants are attached.
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Gibbons & Williams 30 Shillings 1st July 1833 Hutchins T.Williams.jpg
Gibbons & Williams 30 Shillings 1st July 1833 Hutchins T.Williams.jpg (142.64 KiB) Viewed 11475 times
Gibbons & Williams Dublin 30 Shillings 1st Sept.1833 H.T. Williams.jpg
Gibbons & Williams Dublin 30 Shillings 1st Sept.1833 H.T. Williams.jpg (18.33 KiB) Viewed 11475 times
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Re: Gibbons & Williams. Dublin • 1833–1835

Post by ThePloughman »

I guess the Gibbons clan put in some of the money to back the bank then as their name was prominent on the bank's bills.

Nice link, btw.
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Re: Gibbons & Williams. Dublin • 1833–1835

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Two designs have been observed for the £1, 30 Shillings & £5 notes. Design I notes have the date 1st July 1833, Design II notes have later dates.

A £1 note with Design II recently turned up with serial number 502 while a Design I note is known with serial number 378. This suggests that 500, Design I notes, were printed for each denomination. It appears that the Bank did not reset the serial numbers on the transition from Design I to Design II and so did not consider the two designs to be different issues.
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Gibbons & Williams 1 Pound 1st Sept. 1833 Design II.jpg
Gibbons & Williams 1 Pound 1st Sept. 1833 Design II.jpg (182.23 KiB) Viewed 10925 times
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Re: Gibbons & Williams. Dublin • 1833–1835

Post by DOC »

The bank stamps on the 1st September 1833 £1 note are interesting. There are two of them stating: ‘PAID FIRST DIVIDEND 6/8’ and ‘PAID SECOND DIVIDEND 3/4’. So it looks like two dividends were paid to creditors during the bankruptcy, the first for 6 shillings and 8 pence in the pound, the second for 3 shillings and 4 pence in the pound to make a total of 10 shillings in the pound. Not too bad then to receive half the money owing ;)
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Gibbons & Williams 1 Pound 1st Sept. 1833 Bankruptcy Stamps.jpg
Gibbons & Williams 1 Pound 1st Sept. 1833 Bankruptcy Stamps.jpg (105.16 KiB) Viewed 10093 times
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Re: Gibbons & Williams. Dublin • 1833–1835

Post by Mac »

The dividend stamps are interesting alright. I have seen similar marks on the bank's notes occasionally.
10s in the Pound is quite a lot better than nothing!
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Re: Gibbons & Williams. Dublin • 1833–1835

Post by DOC »

Mac, you posted an intriguing Gibbons & Williams £1 note in the Private Banks Section of the Irishpapermoney website. For reference, I hope you don’t mind that I attach it here. This Variation A £1 note has handwritten serial numbers which appear to be 1628. This is unusual in two aspects as the number is high for a Variant A note and the serial numbers of notes for this bank were generally not hand numbered.

One thought is that the note may have been retained as a specimen by the bank or one of its agents and was subsequently submitted for inclusion in the bankruptcy process.
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Gibbons-and-Williams-1-Pound-1833-hand-numbered.jpg
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Re: Gibbons & Williams. Dublin • 1833–1835

Post by ThePloughman »

Sure looks like a 4 digit number. Has anyone seen another one of these bills with hand numbering?
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Re: Gibbons & Williams. Dublin • 1833–1835

Post by Mac »

Yes, it's an interesting anomaly.
This is the only hand-numbered Gibbons and Williams note I have seen.
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