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Grading is important...

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:29 pm
by Mac
…when it's done properly

This is my gripe thread dedicated to badly graded banknotes :mrgreen:

How to grade this note?

It has sticky tape residue on the side, mould and water staining throughout (causing the noted 'Paper Pull'), and a section of the surface is worn away on the bottom under the E of Specimen, just above TEN

Does it warrant a '64 Net' Choice Uncirculated grade?
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think not.

If grading and authentication is going to have a value in our hobby, it should be done accurately, imho.
I believe that terms encompassing "Uncirculated" should be reserved for banknotes that are undamaged and unaltered, exactly as issued—similar to its use in coin grading, as per the ANA guidelines.

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Re: Grading is important...

Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:12 pm
by Mac
Here is a CGC graded note, which gives a grade of UNC, but then goes on to note that there is 'a removed ink spot' on the back—can't see where it was from the scan, though there appears to be a whiter area in the middle of the bottom margin on the reverse.

There is no doubt that the banknote is in high grade (Number 22HA 063992 has also been seen, graded as About Uncirculated in an auction). Accurate grading—It is a largely unused note, which is not quite UNC.

Regarding the note in the picture, HA22 063989, Imho, a banknote cannot be graded as UNC if it has had an ink mark removed. Where did the ink mark come from? What was the nature of the ink mark, a number written, a blob? and most importantly, what was done to the note in order for the ink mark to be removed? Surely the removal process in itself could be akin to the handling of light circulation.

Re: Grading is important...

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 2:11 pm
by Mac
Ebay is a place where good value can be had, but where also banknotes can be overgraded. UNC is an important grade to get right. Below, is a 1958 Irish £1 note currently on ebay, which has been graded UNC.
It isn't UNC. I have pointed out the faults which drag the note down to the EF region. There is a big difference in value between an UNC and an EF for this note.

On ebay, especially, bidders should beware of any older Irish note graded as UNC, as generally there will always be faults in Irish notes dated earlier than the 1970s. Ebay sellers tend to be amateurs, and thus don't know how to grade properly.

An UNC note doesn't have any circulation faults at all, it should be as issued by the Issuing Authority.

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EF graded as UNC

Re: Grading is important...

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:54 pm
by Mac
To encapsulate-grade or to not encapsulate-grade.

It is amusing that there seems to be a school of thought out there among some dealers that the act of getting a banknote graded and enclosed in a sealed packet doubles or triples its value. It doesn't, and collectors are not being fooled by the practice, especially given that these notes are often inaccurately graded or overgraded. If there was consistency in grading from these professional grading companies, then perhaps their product might become more acceptable.
The recent Heritage auction included some overgraded Ploughman notes, which were also overestimated. They didn't sell.

Myself, I always cut a note out of such a packet if I buy it, whether or not it is for my own collection, as I like to grade my notes myself.

If the grading companies got their acts together and introduced some consistency, and more accuracy into their product, then it would improve the overall result, imho. And maybe I wouldn't feel the need to free my notes from the practice.

Re: Grading is important...

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:03 pm
by Mac
National Bank Ploughman £5 note in the recent HA auction.
PMG have overgraded this note. An About Uncirculated cannot have a vertical crease in it. This note falls into the Extra Fine region, imo.

Ploughman 5 Pounds National Bank 1939
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5 Pounds National Bank Ploughman 1939

Re: Grading is important...

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:02 pm
by gaelicyoda
This one is really bad too... currently available on a well know auction site for your collection.

Corner rounding, several crinkles and creases, rust (and other grubbiness) and topped off with a hole in the corner! :lol:

About UNC!? :o



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Re: Grading is important...

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:09 pm
by Mac
That one is seriously off the mark!
GVF region is where it is at plus holy damage :D

Re: Grading is important...

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:50 am
by ThePloughman
Freakin terrible. Dat's a low grade note , how can they call it unc or anywhere near it.

Re: Grading is important...

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:25 pm
by gaelicyoda
Looks like the remaining notes (10/- up to £50) of that same specimen set (the set of which the £10 that begins this topic is a member) are currently doing the rounds once more on a well known online auction site Mac - just... wow! :)

Starts badly with the 10/-, then continues on a downward trajectory until we finally hit the £50 note, which is just a kind of laughable - complete with old tape adhesive remnants and stains/damp/mould - though if someone were buying purely by the grading number then it would be far from funny.

The sad thing is many (though I expect probably all) traditional auction houses will not accept responsibility for discrepancies on professionally graded notes - so if you bought this remotely without looking too closely, you'd be stuck with it. Caveat emptor with graded notes at auction!

(only room enough for 3 attachments, so I've included the last 3... the back of the £20 and the front and back of the £50)

Specimen_20_64_Back.jpg
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Re: Grading is important...

Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 2:06 pm
by Mac
The £50 is the worst of these—bad water damage by the looks of it, and some mould for enhancement!

I think that any collector who would be in the market for notes priced above 100 euro or so would know how overgraded these are. They don't appear to be selling anyway.
It would be interesting to see what they would fetch in an open auction environment. Would we go 100 euros on the £50?!

Re: Grading is important...

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 1:52 am
by ThePloughman
The standards vary so much for these grading companies. You'd think they'd get their act together. Sometimes they do get it right, on the easy ones maybe, like recent unc notes which are unc.

Re: Grading is important...

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:23 am
by Series B notes
This one Is the worst. I know it's not Irish, but you guys need to see it. Unbelievable, PMG. Unbelievable
1977_20_dollar_fold_over_error_gem_66_1_thumb2_lgw.jpg
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Re: Grading is important...

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:35 am
by gaelicyoda
It does look really bad, but I think this one is actually folded over on purpose...

Note the "Fold Over Error" in the grading title area to the left of the "66".
It looks like the note was in a folded position when the serial numbers were printed on it (to the right of the president's hairline).

I remember seeing that Mac had posted a similar error on a Lavery £10, but I can't find the post to link it here

Re: Grading is important...

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:43 am
by gaelicyoda
Ah, found it - here it is, towards the bottom.
It was actually a replacement £10 which makes it even more unusual...